once upon a time...

[Munchy]

btw, here's the door to the veg bathroom, i usually keep it nearly closed now

and here's the veg with the panda and curtain in place as normal

and here's the temp of the outdoor probe that's in there, hangin off the top edge of the middle pot, is the upper reading, which is a couple degrees lower than the reading below that of the gauge area just inside the door

veg temps.jpg (31.51 KiB) Viewed 3136 times

[Munchy]

btw, the bloom closet has dual powered intakes..
the first one here is all acrylic, with dual fans, and a cleanable K&N filter, which i always keep a fresh bounce dryer sheet over that.

the 2nd one, i use to get rid of my smoke... the intake hose comes up under an incense burner, also covered with a bounce sheet

you can't see it too well behind the CO2 tank, but the 2nd intake inline 45cfm fan is back there, and the hose goes right into that side of the closet back down there.

[Munchy]

there's a heating mat under a 4' x 18" shelf, that they're sitting on, but it's turned off.
i have another shelf over top of the lights that is actually keeping it just warm enough.
3 days ago the first 15 rooted, and i trans'd them from 9oz cups into 16oz cups, then 13 more had rooted by next day, and then 12 more yesterday, and 4 more were rooted and trans'd up today... so i guess it's doing ok.

[Munchy]

>>>>and here's the veg with the panda and curtain in place as normal


Is there a good reason for the curtain...?

If not get rid of it.

is there a good reason to get rid of it?


sometimes it helps a little to cut down the amount of light coming out of there and hitting the upstairs windows to make this place look like a lighthouse... as it already sticks up a story higher than all the houses around it... and although that curtain rod is also holding up the panda, which has a white inside to provide reflection to the plants... any passersby, such as the cats, wife, or possible tiny uninvited critters don't need to see the bright light and greenery all exposed around the sides and bottom, and reflecting off the big mirror. the cats love to eat that stuff, and they can jump the gate if they get tempted enough... and the wife has seen more than enough of all this years ago, so i try to keep it out of her face. besides if i wanted to clear the room out to make it presentable for some reason, that would be the one thing to stay behind... so i'd rather not misplace it in the garage from hell or somewhere. i can pull it aside any time i want, but like i said it's under 72F behind it, which is 2 degrees cooler than the rest of the room, so i don't see a problem. but thanks for your concern.

besides, i think it's perty.

[Munchy]

>>How is it cooler under the lights then the rest of your room...?

because the cool tube, blower and exhaust tube are all running very efficiently, i'd imagine.
and there is an extra little fan blowing under the light as well, just above that probe.
the "indoor" gauge is just inside the door, lol
and all the warm air coming up the stairway, tends to get sucked right into that room.
there's also a heater vent just above inside the doorway,
but i've got it mostly closed off, but not completely sealed.

i think those mites from the Ogre were already resistant to the Safers before they even got here. and i think all the extra damage that appeared whenever i sprayed them with it, was actually just evidence of them digging in and resisting. and i'm guessing i won't be seeing them anymore now, after having applied Forbid just once the other day, as it kills the eggs too. then the Azatrol, which is organic, says it can be used up to the day of harvest, but i plan to apply it only once as preventative measure, before they actually start flowering, and then i shouldn't need to apply it again at all as the single application should be effective for 4-8 weeks anyway. and as you say, once they're gone, they should stay gone... unless i'm given any more infested clones..

[Munchy]

no problem, i wouldn't want to smoke bug spray either... i guess i just needed to explain it a little better. have you heard about Forbid and Azatrol before? i just recently found them on ebay.

Forbid's active ingredient, spiromesifen, is a lipid biosynthesis inhibitor (LBI). It is the only miticide to use the LBI mode of action. The product's translaminar activity means it can be sprayed on the top of leaves and will travel through to kill insects feeding underneath.

The company says Forbid prevents mites and whiteflies at all life stages (eggs, immatures, adults) from maintaining proper water balance, so they dry up and die. Nate Royalty, product development manager for Bayer ES, said Forbid provides knockdown and residual control for four to six weeks.

Forbid is labeled for control of:

* Spider mites, including:
o two-spotted spider mites
o Southern red mite
o Boxwood spider mite
o spruce spider mite
o euonymous mite
* False spider mites
* Broad mites
* Eriophyid rust mites
* Whiteflies:
o Sweet potato
o Silverleaf
o Greenhouse whiteflies

~~

INFORMATION FOR AZATROL EC

Azatrol is a broad spectrum botanical product for control of insects and mites on indoor and outdoor vegatables and crops, shrubs, flowers, garden vegetables, fruit and nut trees. Azatrol offers an array of effects by acting as a repellent, anti-feedant, insect growth regulator and ovipositioning deterrent. As a molting inhibitor, it prevents insect larvae from developing into adults. Insects will feed less or not at all on treated foliage, ultimately starving to death, they will also fail to mature and reproduce. This complexity also makes it impossible for an insect's resistance to develop - Low odor and OMRI listed.

What are some of the pests Azatrol controls?

* Mites
* Caterpillars
* Leafhoppers
* Aphids
* Leafminers
* Fungus Gnats
* Flies
* Whiteflies
* Psyllids
* Thrips
* Beetles
* Weevils
* Scales
* Mealy Bugs

Benefits of Azatrol

* Broad Spectrum Control
* No build up of Pesticide Resistance
*
* Organic approvals from: OMRI, USDA-NOP, IMO-IFOAM, RIOA, BFA
* 4 hour re-entry; can be applied day of harvest
* foliar or tank application

Anti-feedant Activity
Azatrol has primary, secondary and tertiary anti-feedant activity. Azatrol acts on the‘taste’ receptors in the insect’s mouth, stimulating deterrent neurons and inhibiting attractant neurons. The result is that the insects starve or just nibble for survival before they die. Insects which require more specific plant foods are more susceptible to this primary anti-feedant activity.

Azatrol affects the movement of food through the insect’s digestive system. Food stays in the gut so feeding is suppressed. Thus, the secondary anti-feedant activity disrupts normal feeding behavior, also contributing to the starvation of the insect.

The tertiary anti-feedant activity of Azatrol affects digestion through inhibition of digestive enzymes.

What this means to your insect control program: Insects fail to damage plants and ultimately starve to death.

Insect Growth Regulator (IGR)
Insect growth regulators work in a variety of ways, but the most common is to disrupt the maturation cycle of the insect. Azatrol also works in this way affecting hormones that regulate growth.

Larvae treated with Azatrol will experience decreases in weight gain, delayed or disrupted molting and an inability to shed old body capsules and, generally, death. In the event of larva escaping growth regulation, pupa and adult growth is affected, leaving them unfit, malformed or dead.

What this means to your insect control program: Insects will fail to mature and reproduce. This eliminates populations over time and keeps them at minimum levels.

Anti-ovipository and Repellent
Several studies have documented the anti-ovipository characteristic of azadirachtin. Simply put, many insects will not lay eggs on treated plant tissue. Azatrol also acts as a repellent to many insect species.

What this means to your insect control program: The likelihood of insect infestation is greatly decreased in treated plants. This also adds a preventative aspect to your control program.

Application:
foliar: 1-4 tbs per 1 gallon of water
drench: 1-2 tbs per 1 gallon of water

[Munchy]

yeh, all my old pressure sprayers were getting that way too, so i just got a new one, called a ladybug, which works really well... puts out a great superfine mist. i'll probably pick up a spare one..

[Munchy]

many miticides work via plant absorption, as opposed to direct contact.
but i figured when my old sprayer quit doing the mist right,
the little fuckers might be able to tiptoe around the treated spots,
like it was a little minefield. and i'd rather not use any wetting agent,
and i think i shouldn't need to, if the mister is doing it's job right.

I've used Azatrol in my freinds rooms before, they need to make smaller bottles, the smallest size I've seen was about $80 and it was about 20x more then needed for the job....I also used it outside a few years back for some unknown bugs with no luck.

there's all kinds of deals going on @ ebay for under $20, to buy it now & w/free shipping.

[PGs GossipGrrl™]

many miticides work via plant absorption, as opposed to direct contact.
but i figured when my old sprayer quit doing the mist right,
the little fuckers might be able to tiptoe around the treated spots,
like it was a little minefield. and i'd rather not use any wetting agent,
and i think i shouldn't need to, if the mister is doing it's job right.

I've used Azatrol in my freinds rooms before, they need to make smaller bottles, the smallest size I've seen was about $80 and it was about 20x more then needed for the job....I also used it outside a few years back for some unknown bugs with no luck.

there's all kinds of deals going on @ ebay for under $20, to buy it now & w/free shipping.

"many miticides work via plant absorption", not particularly accurate, but I guess an ignoramus like Merry might get the basic inference...or not . That's kind of like something benji or Prawn would say; which would tell someone like UB or myself, ya don't really understand very well :0

Actually Munchy, *you* the applicator needs to do the job 'right' . Ie, if you miss a spot, ur @fault, not the mister. Most difficult to find now, the 1gal sprayers with brass wand that had a nozzle which could rotate 360º to spray @any angle. Most just have a brass wand/nozzle tilted to an angle leaving you to need to twist your hand to get the correct angles to apply to *all* leaf surfaces as well as *soil*.

Not sure why Munchy is acting like ~G~ (or a sock of the real ~G) is some kind of grow master. UB knows more than this poster in this thread---ya wanner learn something M, go see UB on RIU. Hell ~G on PG, didn't even understand cantaloupes grown in Mexico on a certain thread I guess Munchy missed (ask PG TrollMod™ benji, he remembers).

Perhaps Munch, ~G is referring to manufacturer's *orig* containers being too large, as the one's ur finding on ebay are just a seller putting into smaller bottles, as this link states:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 602_263622

next link to Calif hydro e-tailer also breaks the larger quantity containers into minute amounts for 'residential' vs 'commercial' users which is what the manufacturer targets these products for...commercial ag uses.

http://stores.ebay.com/The-Hydro-Source ... op=2&_sc=1

*note* on Attain fogger, instructions on 1.5-3k sq/ft rooms, for smaller rooms the concentration could damage weaker plants. I forget if it was OpG, probably TCC, I could only find one brand of pyrethrin fogger than was pure pyrethrin w/o the added synergistic Piperonyl butoxide compound...something to consider, depends on how many syn or 'natural' chemicals ur comfortable with. With a fogger, you might gain the upper hand on hidden mites in a room. But U might still have to deal with 'winter' egg populations hatching in warmer weather.

Learn, not buy going to TCC or listening to ~G who *cannot* guarantee you'll never get mites again via that simplistic regimen above which clearly shows a lack of understanding about mite lifecycles/propagation. But by doing simple homework via the internet...so easy, even a caveman can do it.

Azatrol/Azamax = Neem oil derived

IPM uses *rotation* to prevent resistance, since mites can go through upwards of 8 generations (5-days only under optimal conditions for the 2-spotted mite).


http://nathist.sdstate.edu/orchids/Pests/mites.htm

^Good read, specific to orchids, but general info on mites/control methods is instructive.

^keep in mind, while they say that insecticides are mostly poor on mites, because mites are not insects, I can assure you malathion will kill mites dead! I had the dreaded webbing all over the chicken wire and leaves of the Babcock tree my mother has in a 20gal pot, sprayed at higher rec'd concentration, killed all those suckas dead early Nov, in time to harvest three, 2nd crop, peaches in late November (cause unlike UB, I'm a master fruit gardener who gets late 2nd crop peaches to ripen in all the way up to winter)- tasted better than the June/July main harvest.

Always try to test any new spray on your plants becuz you never know if you'll damage or stress them. Even the lower doze of Malathion will damage even mature raspberry leaves...from personal experience; while similar species, blackberry leaves are unaffected by same.

Another point, is whether or not you use a wetting agent, you have *no* idea if any of these are safe to breath in via combustion byproducts. Any number of 'safe' on food/fruit crop chemicals, "organic" or not, have never been tested for safety as far as smoking...unless you can find literature on tobacco products...and would you trust a tobacco study anyway? I'm sure there are many compounds you can ingest by eating them which have not effect on your lungs...if you know what I mean .

If you can get by with lesser mite management, ie, spraying with cool water, and not using anything else...is it not better?


Link Munchy 'forgot' to post, the chart ~G has never seen b4:

http://www.canr.msu.edu/vanburen/fermite.htm

^If you reuse your soil, and mites have laid eggs in there, come spring or whenever temps get above ~50F, you'll have mites hatching, don't believe what ~G tells you. So you got mite infested clones from somewhere else, this is hardly the *only* vector for introducing mites into an indoor grow.

Last paragraph in above link is especially important, on TCC it was mentioned that improper use of Avid has resulted in resistance in some mites, in Nor. Cal. ...I don't recall details, probably not much provided.

Miticides with different modes of action should be rotated within a season or from season to season to delay the development of resistance. Once resistance to a miticide has developed through selection pressure and the miticide is no longer used, the mite population will regress from homozygous resistance to heterozygous resistance. Therefore, a miticide to which resistance was developed some years ago can often be effective again if employed only once in a season. It generally requires a few generations for the mites to regain resistance when exposed to repeated applications of the miticide. Such miticides could be effectively used in a rotation of miticides with different modes of action.

UB said on PG, anyone who says they've never had mites is either a liar, or they haven't grown MJ. Knock on wood, I'm not a liar and I've grown many a crop over the yrs indoors (with plenty of mites all over the place outside---mites love roses & fruit tree leaves; been lucky, no mites, lots of fungus gnats).


http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2012.html

Most spider mites spend the winter in the egg stage but the twospotted spider mite overwinters as adult females resting in protected places.
Twospotted Spider Mite

The twospotted spider mite is an example of a 'warm season' mite. This pest has been reported from over 180 host plants including field crops, ornamental plants, house plants and weeds.

The females overwinter in the soil or on host plants. The females become active in April and May when they seek out the undersides of leaves on suitable hosts. Each female may lay over 100 eggs. A single generation may require as much as 20 to as few as five days, depending on the temperature. These mites prefer hot, dry weather and often do not reach damaging populations in cool, rainy periods.

In the summer, the adults and nymphs are white with two greenish spots. However, overwintering females usually turn reddish-orange and can be mistaken for other mite species.

Pro tip to Munchy, instead of whining about JF like the mind-numbingly dense & boring Merry, try ignoring his posts, ie don't feed the trolls, JF lives for your response to his posts...like I ignore the duplicitous hypocrite UR when you join Smokes in a gangbang site-wide trolling of a member via site-wide sticky thread...what do U think a new member is going to see when they read that thread, Smokes & U lead by example showing all new (potential) members what they can be subjected to, TOU & rules *only* apply to some, site politics as usual...man you guys are clueless! <holds up mirror to Munchy...all Munchy can see is how pretty he thinks he is...like TCC's Kendo>

Ya, I know, could have broken a long post into dozen 1-2 liners...sorry, no time, too lazy for that, lol

[ben ttech]

its hard to believe ive been reduced to reading the grow forums...