left vs right ?

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roller24
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left vs right ?

Post by roller24 »

It is my understanding that in the political span from left to right, complete authority of the state is on the left end, and anarchy on the right end.
If this is correct, why do so many democrats associate fascism with the right wing, when it is clearly well left of center. Hitler was a leftist, Mussolini was a leftist, Mao, Stalin etc.
Yall seems to think it means something else.... what?

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Post by Intrinsic »

 ... why do so many democrats associate fascism with the right wing, when it is clearly well left of center. 

Ummm Donald Trump With overwhelming continued support from within Republicans.

yanno
the coup plot to overturn legitimate election using FUD, the big lie, antifa ,commie left blm, ect.. if only these obstacles, elections, could be removed so Trump will remain in power, cuz he, And he alone can set everything right. Yanno make America great again. If those pesky obstacles such as the Constitution were removed then MAGA!!!!



D'OH!

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Post by rSin »

they can no longer be honestly refered to as conservatives...
the intolerance of the old order is emerging from the rosy mist in which it has hitherto been obscured.

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Post by rSin »

from my study it is incorrect to refer to mao mousseline and stalin as leftists

its would be a tortured description at the time and doubley so today


the dnc has been largely captured by right thinking since clinton and its anathma to describe their milktoast movements today as such


the extreme right today is a heavy weight on the gop and they have a mountain of legislation to introduce the day after they strike down all the legislations their opposed to
the intolerance of the old order is emerging from the rosy mist in which it has hitherto been obscured.

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left vs right ?

Post by Roots »

Democrats are right of center.

What I find funny is all the republics who call people fascist communist, clearly they don’t understand the two words.

Republicans are not even close to conservatives anymore, Trump is absolutely a fascist.

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Post by Prawn Connery »

roller24 wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:48 pm
It is my understanding that in the political span from left to right, complete authority of the state is on the left end, and anarchy on the right end.
If this is correct, why do so many democrats associate fascism with the right wing, when it is clearly well left of center. Hitler was a leftist, Mussolini was a leftist, Mao, Stalin etc.
Yall seems to think it means something else.... what?
Your understanding is completely arse-about-face (wrong). Anarchy is on the left and complete authority of the state (Fascism) is on the right. Leftists believe in total equality of all individuals that may include collectivism – which is about as far removed from "complete authority of the state" as you can get.

The problem is you have been brainwashed to believe that Russian/Sino/Cuban et al Communism represent the left when in fact they are/were all fascist totalitarian states. True leftists don't have dictators (Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Hitler) as head of state. Dictators, by definition, are oligarchs who surround themselves with an elite to maintain power. This leads to total authority of the state where the common people have no say in their governorship at all. Instead, loyalty is engendered by extreme nationalism, reactivism and racism under the umbrella of an established order (normally lauded as superior to all other orders).

The reason anarchy is on the extreme left (ask me, I'm an anarchist – as if you couldn't tell!) is because pure anarchy = pure equality. Everyone rules themselves and is free to do what they want, rejecting any form of hierarchy or superiority of any individual.

Hierarchy is a trait of the right. Religion is a prime example of right-wing ideology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%8 ... l_spectrum
Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".

Political scientists and other analysts regard the left as including anarchists, communists, socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives and social liberals. Movements for racial equality and trade unionism have also been associated with the left.

Political scientists and other analysts regard the right as including conservatives, right-libertarians, anarcho-capitalists, neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists, fascists, reactionaries and traditionalists.
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Post by roller24 »

oh, so it's left wing good, right wing bad... :roflmao:

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Post by Prawn Connery »

No. It's moderate good, extremist bad. Mkay?
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Post by roller24 »

actually, we are neither incorrect, the political spectrum has two pairs of wings(some say 3). In American politics, left and right originally represented either a liberal or conservative interpretation of the Constitution, more modernly used to measure the degree of whether or not we favor the rights of the individual (right) or the communal greater good.(left)
Up and Down the other wings are anarchism to totalitarianism.

Fascism, dictatorships, monarchies, etc all reside within the extremities of totalitarianism.
Communism, Socialism, reside on the left wing. Anarchy, Individualism, to the right.
To deny that a socialist regime cannot be fascist would be akin to denying the existence of the 3rd Reich.
To deny that a communist regime cannot be dictatorial would be akin to denying the the existence of the CCP.

I'm having trouble pairing a tyrannical despot with a regime that promoted individual liberty, but I'm sure you can list a few.

Once again, I think that perhaps any form of government can succeed, as long as it maintains a sufficient level of empathy towards the governed.
This is why I will always advocate political powers remain at the local level, and interstate cooperation should never surrender those powers to any central authority.
Without sufficient empathy there can be no other route of progress other than towards empowering the state.

History shows repeatedly, that when states grow past a point of governing with empathy, they crumble under their own weight.
History also demonstrates that authoritarianism grows along with the bureaucracy.

The history deniers are trying once again to establish a global rule which like all other attempts will fail.
Regardless of the wonderful intentions of utopia, humans will never succeed, because .. they are humans. Self preservation, the strongest of all instincts always prevails over self deprivation.

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Post by Prawn Connery »

Well I said a lot of that myself if you have another read. If you go too far to the left you end up on the right – and vice versa. I look at politics like the pendulum on a clock: it swings left, it swings right, but for every swing to the left or right it passes through the middle.

I know I said I was an anarchist (I mean, I kinda am when it comes to message boards, LOL!) but I'm more realistically a centrist with probably more left leanings than right.

The problem with organisation at the local level is that you leave yourself open to being usurped by larger organisations that can harness the resources of many more people. A country of individuals - like herding cats – is no match for a country united under one purpose. That is why China has been so successful and why it sees itself as a rising power (and system of government) compare to the West, which it believes is in decline.

However, the Chinese system has its own inherent problems. And that's why I am a centrist. I believe we need free-market incentives to promote efficiency and productivity, but we also need to reign in market distortions and level the playing field for those who do not have the benefit of birthright.

If you look after ALL the people, they will look after you. If you provide free education and healthcare, then you raise your society up as a whole instead of providing ongoing advantage to the few who actively try to protect their privilege. Which is what I believe a lot of right-wing movements are trying to do by opposing universal education and healthcare. Gerrymandering is another form of oppression, but that is not always exclusive to the right.
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