Anti-vaxx Chronicles

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Intrinsic
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Post by Intrinsic »

AntiVaxDrivingSoberAnalogy.jpg
If something has a 94% effectiveness rate, that means it works for 94% of people, or approximately 19 out of 20 people. It also means that it fails to work for the remaining 6%, or the remaining 1 out of 20. Anyone who understands percentages, which is, I believe, taught in 4th grade, should understand that 94% is not 100%. It’s less than 100% but more than 0%.

Nevertheless, there are a lot of adults who think that if a vaccine didn’t work for one person, that means it doesn’t work.
We can’t ignore these people as if their opinions don’t matter. Some of them are elected officials!
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1 ... ign=recent

*USA numbers.

How many lives have coronavirus vaccines saved? Our new analysis finds out
Using near real-time data of state vaccination rates, coronavirus cases and deaths in our model, we found that ... vaccines saved 140,000 lives by May 9, 2021.
https://www.alternet.org/2021/10/deaths ... y-vaccine/


Compared to 3 vaccinated deaths from non-covid related.
And 750 vaccinated covid related deaths.

Yet anti-vaxxers hang onto: but we don't know what evil lurking in it. Dirty business, political intrigue, against mandates and the ever-popular: they're after our precious body fluids.

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Post by Munchy »

i think that's really a bunch of obfuscation to save face and avoid admitting that they're mostly all just butt-hurt because Trump lost or whatever they want to believe happened. If Trump was still in office and had told his followers to get the jab, a large percentage of the current anti-vaxxers would have gladly taken it in full support of their dear cult leader, but now they would rather risk their lives along with everyone else's, than to give Biden and the democrats the satisfaction of victory over the rona. #scorched-earth
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Post by Lrus007 »

well for me i do not want the vax..
no i would not want it if trump was still in office.
had covid 2 times and still alive so there is that also..
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Post by Butcher Bob »

Intrinsic wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:33 pm
If something has a 94% effectiveness rate...blah blah blah
You're familiar with the phrase "garbage in, garbage out", right?

Initially one would think trials would be a good indicator. But then concerns arose...was the process rushed?...was it biased?...were the pharmaceutical companies being honest?...who's profiting off the vaccines?, and how much?...are there known or unknown factors that have not been factored in?...etc. But then rather than addressing these legitimate concerns, you (as well as many others) turn the discussion into a political one. How does that help anyone?

Perhaps instead of clinging on to your beliefs and claiming "science", you could keep up with the current science and address...
...in a report released from the Ministry of Health in Israel, the effectiveness of 2 doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vaccine against preventing COVID-19 infection was reported to be 39% [6], substantially lower than the trial efficacy of 96% [7].
...rather than to continue to push numbers that have clearly been shown to be faulty.

Intrinsic wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:33 pm
*USA numbers.

How many lives have coronavirus vaccines saved?
... vaccines saved 140,000 lives by May 9, 2021.
Great. Not quite the 32-40% of US covid deaths that could have been prevented by having universal healthcare...

"Lancet Report: 40% of U.S. COVID Deaths Were Preventable. The Country Needs Universal Healthcare Now"
https://www.democracynow.org/2021/2/15/ ... healthcare

"Power of universal health coverage in the era of COVID-19: A nationwide observational study"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanw ... 2/fulltext

Where is your outrage over the lack of M4A?


And just to really jam a wrench in the gears...
Remember it was Trump that threw shit loads of $$ into vaccine R&D, fast tracked the approval process, initiated the idea of mandates, and provided universal healthcare for covid testing and treatment. Despite the fact he was a poor president, he didn't get everything wrong.

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Post by Jesús Malverde »

I've gotta get on a plane in a couple of weeks and fly across an entire continent and an ocean for important business. I've been putting it off for a long time but I can't keep putting it off any longer. Everyone on the plane will be required to provide proof of vaccination AND a negative COVID test result. Thank goodness. I'm usually looking forward to travelling, but not this time.
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Post by Intrinsic »

Initially one would think trials would be a good indicator. But then concerns arose...was the process rushed?
No
...was it biased?
No.
...were the pharmaceutical companies being honest?
Inconsequential it's CDC and FDA that matter.
...who's profiting off the vaccines?
US citizens.
, and how much?
Free.
...are there known or unknown factors that have not been factored in?
Unknown factors! what are you stupid. Yes, known factors have been factored in.
...etc. But then rather than addressing these legitimate concerns,
And you would rather ask questions rather than do your own research. Or likely ask questions after your research didn't pan out the way you liked it. Exactly like Tucker Carlson. Exactly.
Great. Not quite the 32-40% of US covid deaths that could have been prevented by having universal healthcare...
It is great, yet having universal healthcare would not affect one way or the other the vaccines efficiency or current availability.. It's free no appointments, kind of like Universal Health Care. Damn you're stupid.
Where is your outrage over the lack of M4A?
Straw man fallacy, red herring fallacy, so what would my outrage change, GIGO. God you're stupid.
Where is yer outrage from trump's dismantling our emergency pandemic response team. Or the sheer number of misery caused by trump's initial Novel Coronavirus denial. Idiot
Perhaps instead of clinging on to your beliefs
ya mean my beliefs on the scientific method, numbers, mathematics, logic.. no thanks. ummm Bob why don't YOU give up your beliefs instead, m'kay. Fool.

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Post by Roots »

I laughed at the unknown factors line too.

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Post by Roots »

“...in a report released from the Ministry of Health in Israel, the effectiveness of 2 doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vaccine against preventing COVID-19 infection was reported to be 39% [6], substantially lower than the trial efficacy of 96% [7].”


I just read the findings and interpretation of that report....You should have linked that whole report... it was pro vaccination, so I understand why you just cherry picked it.

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Post by Butcher Bob »

Intrinsic wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:37 am
Initially one would think trials would be a good indicator. But then concerns arose...was the process rushed?
No
So "emergency approval for use" is part of the normal process?
...was it biased?
No.
When an agency is largely funded by the industry it regulates, and is staffed with employees from that industry, you think it will be bias free?
...were the pharmaceutical companies being honest?
Inconsequential it's CDC and FDA that matter.
The FDA and NIH both say not to aspirate the shots, yet the manufacturers' directions say to aspirate...so you're going with the agency advice, instead of actual science?
...who's profiting off the vaccines?
US citizens.
How so? When do I start getting my royalty checks?
, and how much?
Free.
Who paid for the R&D? Who's paying for the vaccines?
...are there known or unknown factors that have not been factored in?
Unknown factors! what are you stupid. Yes, known factors have been factored in.
It was determined early on that some amount of the population is not susceptible to the virus...how was that factored into efficacy rates?
...etc. But then rather than addressing these legitimate concerns,
And you would rather ask questions rather than do your own research. Or likely ask questions after your research didn't pan out the way you liked it. Exactly like Tucker Carlson. Exactly.
Just as I've pointed out, you fail to address concerns...rather, you give weak counters and turn political...making you as useful to the conversation as folks that think we're being chipped. :facepalm:
Great. Not quite the 32-40% of US covid deaths that could have been prevented by having universal healthcare...
It is great, yet having universal healthcare would not affect one way or the other the vaccines efficiency or current availability.. It's free no appointments, kind of like Universal Health Care. Damn you're stupid.
Where is your outrage over the lack of M4A?
Straw man fallacy, red herring fallacy, so what would my outrage change, GIGO. God you're stupid.
Where is yer outrage from trump's dismantling our emergency pandemic response team. Or the sheer number of misery caused by trump's initial Novel Coronavirus denial. Idiot
Perhaps instead of clinging on to your beliefs
ya mean my beliefs on the scientific method, numbers, mathematics, logic.. no thanks. ummm Bob why don't YOU give up your beliefs instead, m'kay. Fool.
Despite clearly stating my motives, you just don't seem to get it. I haven't offered my opinion on whether to vax or not...I'm not coming up with the concerns. I am merely having fun antagonizing you, when I see your stance is questionable or lacking, pointing out stuff you seem to ignore...devil's advocate stuff. :twisted:

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Post by Butcher Bob »

Roots wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:01 am
“...in a report released from the Ministry of Health in Israel, the effectiveness of 2 doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vaccine against preventing COVID-19 infection was reported to be 39% [6], substantially lower than the trial efficacy of 96% [7].”


I just read the findings and interpretation of that report....You should have linked that whole report... it was pro vaccination, so I understand why you just cherry picked it.
I...didn't cherry pick anything...

viewtopic.php?p=172403#p172403

Check the source...did I omit anything? :whistle:

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